Mailing For Dollars $$$ With Karen Anderson

 

Did you know that 70% of people in the US say that mail is more personal than the Internet? Millennials are actually quite active when it comes to mail. Know how you can mail for dollars today with Karen Anderson, the CEO of Lists and Marketing. Her goal is to help real estate agents find their ideal prospects. Learn how to make more money by targeting the right mailing lists. Find out how to mail to multiple list types while diversifying into new markets. Discover the Mailing ABC’s – “Always Be Consistent” in today’s episode.

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Mailing For Dollars $$$ With Karen Anderson

I hope everyone is doing great. Thank you for being here. I am Karen Anderson. I’m with Lists and Marketing. I’m a Direct Marketing Coach. I have been doing this for many years. I love what I do, helping people to find off-market deals or getting the foundation so they can find off-market deals. I’ve had the pleasure of working with Stacy and her team for quite some time. A little background about me, I’m based out of Houston, Texas, at Lists and Marketing. My background is in marketing and statistics. I worked with IBM before getting into direct marketing. I loved everything data.

My parents were real estate investors. That was the catalyst of why I do what I do. I wanted to help to figure out different platforms to which I could help with different marketing and lists that would generate a better target audience and get more motivated sellers. That’s what I do. Before I get into direct mail, mailing for dollars, the right list and multiple lists, I wanted everyone to take one minute, close their eyes and think, “Why am I a real estate investor?” You ask yourself the question like, “What got me to being a real estate investor?” Everyone is going to have different answers, but it’s important to ask the whys.

Stacy had mentioned in her presentation the flexibility of being your own boss. My parents got into it because they wanted to make sure that they had additional income when they retired. They have multiple properties that they have bought and held over the years. They are doing well. They can travel and do what they want. I saw that building a nest egg for your children, having that financial freedom and doing it the way Stacy does. That’s a dream to go ahead and be able to travel and be in that RV. At the same time, she is able to go around, help others, teach and then build her wealth. It’s what brought you here.

To be a success in this industry, it’s connecting with the right people. In her presentation, I’m talking about this educational forum and connecting with some great teachers that assist you, especially starting out. I have been doing this for quite a long time to where even now, I educate, “You need to surround yourself with the right people to have that level of success.” A key ingredient is a right education and coaching. You have these small coaching sessions that you get through REI USA. I know that Stacy has a coaching program for storage that’s phenomenal with the right network of REI people through REI-USA as well as other REIA groups.

Here, it’s one-stop to get all of this education and connections and get going. Even if you are seasoned, it’s to further your knowledge and learn as the market shifts, like myself sharing with marketing what is trending, what is doing better, and building from that. With the right systems in place, Stacy hands-down know. This is a business. You have to have your backend and tracking in place and your CRM. It’s everything you need to build your business. It’s getting with lenders and having your private money. All of that is so necessary and the right marketing. It is crucial.

Over the years, I’ve had people that have come to me. A lot of times, they don’t know where to start. That’s where I come in. Even with seasoned investors, we discuss the strategies that are best for them. We figure out and brainstorm like, “What is going to help them? What are their goals? What are their niches? What are they thinking to do in the next six months or a year?” Things change. I have clients that came to me in 2022 that came to me totally different about what they wanted to do in 2021 because I see that they want to have more passive income or they want to do more flipping.

[bctt tweet=”As the market shifts, your direction will shift as well. You just have to figure out your own unique game plan.”]

Why Mailing For Dollars?

Everything as the market shifts, your thought on what direction I’m going to go in might shift as well. Everyone is different. You have to figure out your own unique game plan and the right mailing lists. The right mailing lists are crucial. When I got into the industry many years ago, I worked for five years to enrich myself in the data world to understand sourcing and how to get the best out of different files. It’s so imperative to have that strong foundation when you are mailing because you want the right audience or else you are spending a lot of money mailing out postcards or letters. If you don’t get it back, you threw a lot of marketing dollars away.

You have to test. It’s not like it’s going to happen. It can right off the bat, but more often than not, you want to have those 6 to 9 months to prepare in terms of your marketing. Even with seasoned investors, I’m like, “Let’s see how it goes. If we have to tweak it, we will tweak it. Let’s talk next quarter.” I’m always available. I set up different event meetings. Typically, when you start with me, I want to get back to you within 3 to 6 months.

Why mailing for dollars? Seventy percent of people in the US say that mail is more personal than the internet. Technology can be a little impersonal. That’s a strong figure. That does include your Millennials as well. About 29% of Millennials like to get a direct mail piece over emails. It’s still a group that can be approached with mail. You could do additional things. You could also send a mail piece that has a text option or reverse text. That is a great additional tool to utilize. You could do calls as well and append it to a strong list foundation, which a lot of my clients are doing as well.

Other stats, 90% of direct mail is viewed to 20% of emails. That is a huge deal. I have had over the years a lot of people that have come to me for emails. It’s great when they are homegrown. That’s when you get the better responses. It’s when you have had people that have gone to your landing page. Maybe they were looking on your website and you have captured that email or people that came to your site. You have your email and then those people at trade shows or whatever it is. However you have connected, you have forgotten that opt-in email and it’s homegrown. Those are the emails that you want to keep sending out.

You can get emails appended to lists and they are done more so nowadays. Direct mail, calling and texting is going to have a greater response. Fifty percent of people find postcards useful. In other words, a lot of people say, “Everybody is going to trash it in the mail.” Fifty percent don’t. They put it away and save it for later. I do that. There’s a multitude of different types of mail pieces as well. I will get into that a little later. Forty-two percent of people read or scan the mail they receive, saving it for later, which I do it. The roofers came by because we had a hailstorm. I saved a few of their contact information to have it just in case I need it and I did call one.

There are other things with direct mail. People are into direct mail. In fact, a local direct mailer that I have worked with for many years was telling me it’s on the rise. More businesses are doing more direct mail nowadays, even than they did years ago. People realize the technology is there, but that personal touch is still so vital for all businesses, particularly in the REI world. I have talked from newbies to very seasoned long-time clients and they still are getting great responses with direct mail.

 

Cost Per Lead & Knowing Your Market

We always want to look at your cost per lead and what Stacy was talking about too with the different markets. It’s so important to know your market and look at your budget. If you are in a city, it might be harder to get deals and know, “Should I use the postcard or letter?” If you were in Dallas, you might not want to send a cheap postcard. Whereas if you were in Louisiana, you could do a smaller postcard and send that out and have different verbiage for different types of people with different areas. City versus country, it’s a different market and the cost per lead is going to be different.

You want to send out a lot more in LA. Idaho is getting better. It’s in rural areas, even in Georgia. Georgia has gotten very competitive, and Tennessee. California and Florida are going to require more. Your cost per lead, though, is still what you want to look at. You might spend $10,000 in marketing, but if you got a deal, it could be a $30,000 or $40,000 wholesale deal or even much more than that. I have heard people with $70,000 or $80,000. Whereas in general, though, we say $3,000 in marketing. If you get a wholesale deal and it’s $10,000, you have made three times the money. If you get $15,000, it’s five times. There’s a good return on investment from doing direct mail marketing for investors.

To make money in mailing, you have to have the right mailing lists and proven algorithms. I do a lot of work with distressed homeowner models and different types. What is important is the sourcing method for each type. Nowadays, you can go online and find a lot of different list companies that are available out there. What you want to look for though, is not necessarily, “It’s the biggest one. Let’s go ahead and try out distressed homeowners with absentees mixed with tax delinquents and stack it in one main database.”

You want to have different sources for different lists. Our tax delinquency file is separate from our absentee file. It’s sourced separately from our distressed delinquent file. They are all sourced a little differently and then their overlay because you want the foundation of pulling the main component of that data. First and foremost, it’s sourced the best way possible and then you can add the layers. You don’t want to go to one main database of 300 million names and then try to figure out all the components in it. It’s not effective.

I did that when I started out. I didn’t quite understand the whole data world, but it was also pushed from companies, “Use this type of data file. You can still pull it and you can pull it for cheaper.” The problem is everyone is doing that. You don’t want to have the same data as everyone is doing. You want something that’s going to be different, that’s going to set you apart. Like Stacy, I’m all about having my clients have an edge, have more education and information, and have the ability to get a step ahead of the rest that is out there since it’s so competitive.

I’m good about sourcing methods, overlaying data and algorithms as discussed, audience, that’s important. I look at what Stacy mentioned. It is vital to know what is going on now and what is performing best in terms of different demographics. The older population is not moving as much. That’s correct. They are staying put. They are not selling a home 75 and older. Millennials are growing. It is amazing. It went from 30% of people owning homes to 60%.

[bctt tweet=”Every time is the right time for investing.”]

Everybody is running to get homes in that demographic group. They are purchasing homes. It’s astounding and wonderful. I’m glad to see that. We need to know with our audience that we pull from the 20s into the 50s and 60s. I do make sure that it depends on the market. I always tell people, “Your list model has potentially changed in the last couple of years from now. You want to look at having me create a different foundation, which takes all of those components together.”

Each market is going to be a little different as well. I will go through and make sure that the models are fitted with the market that you are in. The data hygiene process is super key too. There are a lot of data companies that don’t clean it necessarily to make it the best in terms of not having anything come back in the mail. Deliverability is very important and accuracy on files. I’m adamant about making sure our files are current and sourced well with the right overlay.

There are so many investors that have gone back to the corporate world and said, “I’m going to leave it for a bit,” and unfortunately, have departed when it’s a good time to invest. I know the people that have been around forever are like, “This is great.” They are people that aren’t serious about it or don’t quite have all the education necessary to understand that every time is the right time for investing. My parents have never stopped investing over the years. They are always investing. You don’t want to go into a declining market. You figure out your path.

Mailing List Types

Mailing list types, the hardship distressed late model is an algorithm that has people that are going to be late on their mortgages. It’s doing exceptionally well. We have an absentee file. That’s not just free and clear, but it also has some components of inherited and family transfers. That one is doing well. It depends on the place. It’s not in California. As people come to me for different data, I will have that conversation and we will figure out what would be the best depending on where you are and your direct marketing goals.

Tax delinquencies have been coming up a lot more as of late. There’s a huge movement into tax delinquencies. There’s a lot of profit to be made there too. That’s another file to work with. Stacy is in storage. The storage data is working great. We have a couple of different models. I go over the advantages and disadvantages of both. I prefer people to start out with a few lists, which I will be getting into in the next couple of sessions here. I did want to point out with storage data that you are doing your direct mail. You have the option there as well for the business file of storage data where you have phone numbers.

It has been great with multi-investor models, so you can pull multiple investor types. This is working well for short-term rentals to private money models, private mortgage note holders and prettier home models. A lot of times, people want to target people that are not in such a distressed home but a nice home. We have a model that’s fit for that and then certain parameters. It still has some duress on there so that you can approach somebody that is off-market but potentially would be a good seller.

 

Let’s see the commercial land data. That file would be for multifamily dwelling units. You could do anything from apartments to 2 to 4 units or 5-plus units. You can hit retail or do warehouses. You have the option for different mailing lists. My deal is making sure that the foundations are the best for my clients. I do a lot of extra work in data hygiene on all the file types. This is not all of them, but it’s some of the most asked or sought-after. The right mailing lists lead you the right way. You’ve got to make sure your target audience is reached. That is key.

Having done this for a long time, it’s important for me to make sure that my clients are working with the right sources. They have come to me and said, “So-and-so can get X, Y, Z.” I’m like, “I understand but it’s not quite done like I’m doing it to weed out the non-essential criteria that’s through there.” It’s important when it comes to mailing lists to make sure that we have the best data hygiene process possible. The strategy is picking the right list. That’s where I come into play. Direct marketing consultants are important to have to walk you through it, get back in touch and tweak it as needed.

I do spend a lot of time working on that. I’m very competitive for my clients. I want them to come back and be with me for a long time. I have clients that I’m grateful for and now they have their kids that are coming to me. I want to see people succeed in this area and I will do my best to make it happen. The right list comes from the right sources. I have this key point here of Walmart of data. What is happening, unfortunately, is I saw this years ago where you have these huge list companies and they are out there.

They are reselling data and white-labeling it. Somebody is coming through and they are list-brokering out. They are doing what I call garbaging out the list. They are reselling it so many times under so many different hats. It’s getting out there to where, unfortunately, it becomes so saturated. Why I mentioned Walmart is you don’t go to Walmart to buy a diamond ring, although I said that to my mom and she was like, “You can, but it’s not going to be the best.” I’m like, “Exactly.” You can go to the Walmart of data. You can go to the online companies. I encourage having different methods of getting leads and deals.

Do it more so for maybe a consumer radius if you want to saturate certain areas. If you wanted to do something like that, sure, or get with somebody like myself that understands the targeting, sourcing and how important that is. It’s not just the piece. The piece is important too and that’s about testing. It’s having that creative data mining. That’s what I make sure is done and then the right lists. I say plural, so that gets us into our next topic. The right list is always key because I want to make sure that people start out with two or more. Making sure that you have multiple lists is imperative.

You want to test all the different files. I usually do about 2 to 5 different list types and then we will test through that. It depends on what you are doing. There are some that have a niche. If it’s for multifamilies, maybe we do two models. If some people want to get into wholesaling and flipping and they want to hit distressed residential homeowners, then we have 3, 4 or 5 models. It all depends on your budget and what strategy. That’s something to have a discussion about.

[bctt tweet=”Consistency is the key to success in direct mail marketing.”]

Traditionally, let’s say you are working with me and we did two lists in one area. We might bump that up if you are getting into another market. There are so many opportunities that are out there getting into different markets that have a lot of clients that are now doing things virtually more so. They are going into different states and they have in the ground in other areas. They are making a lot of deals out there. Face-to-face is still imperative. Everyone has a different thought about that.

You can make additional deals in areas like them. In Georgia, you can get into five states with 5 to 8-hour drives. I have a lot of clients doing that. They are getting deals, whether it’s residential or storage. It’s 2 to 5 direct marketing lists. It will be good to start with having multiple foundations because you are going to test them. If in one area you see that an absentee duress file is performing well, maybe in another area you have the tax delinquencies that are pulling better. You won’t know that until you start working on your data.

You are throwing a niche of three different list types, and then you can see, “Karen, you can call them and say, ‘Let’s look at modifying it a little bit. We’ve got a lot more Millennials here.'” We will go back, work on the data, change up the demographic profile and the models for you, and then you can go out again. What I love to do is to figure out the strategy. What happens, though, is sometimes the market will shift and then we have to look at a whole new list foundation. Some people don’t, and some people stay with what they have been doing.

I have a client. She has not changed her marketing in fifteen years and she does phenomenally well. It’s whatever works for you. She does a distressed. She is doing more of the hardship distressed file. That is one file type that has been phenomenal for a long time. We can have that discussion and see what works best for you. Results improve considerably when there is enough of a sampling size coupled with multiple list marketing in different geographical areas. It is what it is.

Mailing ABC’s

That’s something that I have seen over the years with clients. When we started looking at smaller samples, you could see a dip in the marketing. You need that 2,000 to 3,000 names per file type if possible. I will work if we need to have 1,500. I will walk you through that process. The sampling size is imperative as well. The mailing ABC is Always Be Consistent. Consistency is the key to success in direct mail marketing. You need to be marketing continuously.

Many investors give up before the money comes in. You have to send out enough volume enough times to different groups you are testing. You always have to be testing it out. Once you find that motion that everything is working well, then you can modify it. I’ve had a client that had four lists and now he has three. Two of the four lists performed well. We kept those two lists and then we added one for 2022. He is going out and marketing to that. We are always changing it up. I’m here to guide and I want people to do well. It’s imperative to build trust with a distressed homeowner.

 

You have to send it out multiple times. In addition to that, you have your branding. Even more so, that person might not be ready then. If you are there and if you are sending it out and not just the one-and-done, you will potentially be there when they are ready. Mailing multiple times does offer higher success rates. I have talked to many investors over the years and this has gotten more competitive. I most encourage at least 2 to 3 touches and then even more so. It depends on the budget too. We would walk through that together. A listing agent should be able to do that for you.

ABC yields profit to those with patience. Be consistent with the mailing as well as your follow-up. Follow-up is key. I will get into that. Eighty percent of deals come after multiple touches. You have your calls, texts and emails long after that first contact. A lot of people will think, “I got it.” If you send out a mail piece, it’s possible. Let’s say you send out 5,000 pieces. You do pretty well and you get 0.5% to 1%. In some areas, you can get a bit more being conservative in the numbers. After that, you do want to have a system in place to do your follow-ups.

There are so much opportunities after that. Sometimes, unfortunately, people go with what is happening now and they are getting people that are calling in. You have to have a system in place to also do the follow-ups. Direct mail is imperative. People give up too early. They will send out maybe a couple of times and then they are like, “It doesn’t work.” You’ve got to keep working it. Depending on your budget, maybe you scale down a little bit. Keep marketing it, even if you do some drip marketing. They aren’t angry at you. People forget that their target group is distressed homeowners.

Many of my clients over the years have been marketing to some of the most distressed ones, which are more of the delinquent-type files. The ones that over time have done the best are the ones that go through. They are listening. You listen to, “I don’t want this. I don’t need this. I’m sorry. I’m marketing in your area. I wanted to help people and see if they needed any assistance with their homes. I wasn’t targeting you.” You were looking at being of service to somebody in the area.

You are listening and letting them know like, “I understand you are not in need of my services right now. Keep my information.” That’s something to still follow up on, even if they call you angry. A lot of people think, “That’s it. That’s not a good lead.” I can’t say how many of the top coaches that I have worked with over the years have told me that some of their angriest callbacks have turned into great deals. Don’t think, “Nothing can happen from it.” That’s a good opportunity. People have a hard time when they have a loss. They are freaking out if they are losing their home. You’ve got to listen, wait and know that it’s still something that you can help them with.

The most successful REIs are always marketing. There are no breaks. I hear and see it all the time. It’s constantly marketing. I do have a lot of clients that started out like Stacy. It’s more so with direct mail and now they have moved into the online space. You can’t make as much money online as you would in direct mail. When you are starting out, direct mail doesn’t cost as much to tweak and figure out as if you got into it online. It’s more competitive, so it’s going to require a lot more money. I hear that from many investors.

[bctt tweet=”The most successful real estate investors are always marketing. There are no breaks.”]

With direct mail, you can definitely create a method of getting to that point. Eventually, you can grow into different channels, which I do encourage. I want people to diversify. While I’m one list source, there are other list sources. I have this discussion that you would want to tap into even through Stacy’s The Probates. That’s another company I know that she works with closely. You can get probate lists from there because it’s a well-sourced file. You look at different ways of getting your marketing together but don’t stop.

I wanted to go over the closing points. I wanted to go over the essentials with mailing. You want to have the right list. You want to get multiple lists and touches, geography testing, and consistency. Mail pieces must be deliverable. It must grab your attention. They have to have a call to action, “I’ve got this. Now, what do I do? What is the reason for me to call?” A lot of times, PS within a mail piece is great, “Call us so we can talk to you about your home value or something.” You want to give them that little nudge of some way to get them to call in so that you have that lead and you can have the discussion. You must provide a solution to their problem.

Follow-ups and nurturing leads are an integral part of the direct mail process. I can’t say that enough. I can remember back even with Stacy. She told me down the line with distressed mail marketing. Later in the year, she would still be getting people that would call in. You do have an opportunity there for the long-term. Nurture with calls, emails and texts. Calling, emails and texts are still competitive. Everyone is different. It depends on where you are. It’s not necessarily something you need to do right away with direct mail that you can get to that point. Consult a listing specialist and direct marketing expert to lead the way.

That’s what I love to do. I love helping people. I love how they grow, make money and help others at the same time. It’s a win-win and you don’t give up. I know a lot of people do and I’m like, “Let’s try something else.” I sometimes know with a budget, it’s hard, but marketing is so important. Go back on the marketing dollars a little bit but don’t stop. You are almost there and I have seen that so many times. It’s like, “Stay a little longer,” and then I don’t hear from them. It’s a little heartbreaking because I know it’s a little bit more tweaking, but I want people here.

You have got this amazing group at REI-USA in connection. People can do it. I have seen so many wonderful people over the years that get into financial freedom. It’s pretty amazing. Mailing for dollars has made many of my clients very wealthy and it can be done. In closing, your success is our success. I know it’s not 100% possible, but I do want everybody to succeed. I do everything I can to get you the right foundation. We form solid customer relations and work smart to offer our clients a competitive edge. I’m working with you. I’m working for you.

I do also have 500 names I want to add for free on the files that you select, whether it’s a storage, distressed or absentee duress. I do offer times. It’s usually about 30 or 40 minutes. We connect and go over your goals. I send over an Excel spreadsheet to ask a lot of questions and then we look at a time where we can take the time. Oftentimes, I will do a Zoom call as well. We spend the time discussing the strategies that are available to you and figuring out a game plan. The code is there. It’s REIFEB2022. I’m a proud sponsor of REI-USA. Please contact me. There’s my information. You could send an email. That would be great.

 

Important Links

• Linkedin: Karen Anderson
• REI USA
• http://www.rei-usa.com/membership/
• http://www.REI-USA.com/trainings/
• http://www.REI-USA.com/ teachers-spotlight/
• http://www.rei-usa.com/free-template/
• https://www.instagram.com/reiusa_/
• Free Online Jumpstart Course for Real Estate Investing: https://bit.ly/3IrDji9
• REI USA Youtube: https://bit.ly/36QPoQl
• How to Get Started Investing in Real Estate: https://bit.ly/3pIxB4r
• Talk to Kristi, Our Community Manager, for a FREE 10 Minute Website Demo: https://bit.ly/3pIxB4r

 

About Karen Anderson

Karen Anderson with Lists and Marketing
20 years of providing customized Direct Marketing List services

*Marketing Consultant, Data Specialist, List Expert servicing: Real Estate, Mortgage, Financial Cos, Marketing Cos and more!

*OUR GOAL – HELPING YOU BEST TARGET YOUR IDEAL PROSPECT
For Real Estate Groups – we offer the most proven creative models for reaching more ideal prospects,
MOTIVATED BUYERS AND SELLERS

*While we cater predominantly to Real Estate Investors, Agents, Financial & Marketing industries, we have expertise servicing all types businesses.

If you are in need of targeted data to help you attract seller financing deals, wholesale, lease options, and more, please reach out.

We have unique data models – mortgage data, distressed late pays, private money, absentee homeowners, free and clear high equity, and many more.

Please send me a message for fast response to: listsandmarketing@gmail.com.

*We always work hard and smart to offer the very best service possible and the most targeted audience so our clients are a step ahead competitors. We also have great connections and referrals from amazing real estate coaches. We have to make a difference. That’s what its all about…
Your success is our success.

I hope to hear from you soon! Any questions, ask away!
Sincerely, Karen Anderson, listsandmarketing@gmail.com